Message 9628 of 22774 in Behind the Bar

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> > there's no reason for somebody to make a 
> > fuss (besides the fact you're spitting the sip back out in front of 
> > customers).
> 
> I see no reason to make a fuss should one choose to not drink.

Note, I didn't...

> Now, can you please, typing slowly, tell me, in plain english, why 
> one SHOULD make a fuss about someone choosing to not drink? Because 
> your (and .Dan.'s) point hasn't come through to me yet other than, 
> 'it's no big deal if you drink'.

Note, I didn't say anybody must drink, I said that you should know/understand 
the taste/texture/etc...which is why I even proposed a solution that doesn't 
involve drinking.  Anybody who's ever been to one of my parties, and it seems 
inevitable that this happens once at every party...I will always have to step 
in on one conversation where somebody is being preasured to drink.  I'm the 
first to say "Don't drink if you don't want to".

> > No they aren't, but they are the only ones that can be attributed to 
> > blind obedience towards the tennent of not drinking (OK, maybe add 
> > watching somebody succumb to alcohol, but then you really shouldn't 
> > be in a bar or anywhere around alcohol if that fear is so 
> > overwhelming).  There is a HUGE difference between blindly avoiding 
> > alcohol and having a rational(-ized) reason for not comsuming it.
> 
> How about 'I don't like the taste of booze'? Is that acceptable? If 
> that's my reason, am I permitted to pass through the gates?
> 
> Hmm... maybe YOU (and .Dan.) are the ones with hang ups if you think 
> that the ONLY reasons any one could have for not drinking are 
> religion, alcoholism, or seeing some one else's demise due to Fire 
> Water. Is that it?

Geez, PLEASE MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT I WROTE AND SOMEBODY ELSE 
WROTE!!!!  I never said those are the only reasons.  I said those are the 
reasons that lead to blind avoidance...did it ever occur to you that "I don't 
like the taste of booze" is a perfectly rational reason as I described it????  
Sorry to sound rude, but it seems that you completely missed what I wrote.  
Most of what I said is in agreeance with you!?!?!

> > Those who blindly avoid it probably shouldn't be behind a bar (come 
> > on, their beliefs should preclude them from tending bar in the first 
> > place). 
> 
> Believe it or not, I agree. But then, I don't think that every one 
> that chooses to not drink does so 'blindly'. Just like I don't think 
> that every one that does choose to drink does so 'blindly'.

Well, I just said it above, but I feel it needs to be said for clean clarity.  
I talk about people who choose not to drink by rational, rationalized, or 
blind reasons.  That's 3 different categories for the less philisophical among 
us.  Rational is pretty self explanitory (for example, somebody who chooses 
not to for health).  Rationalized reasoning is trickier to explain, but 
essentially it is false rational thinking where-in the basis for the decision 
is completely flawed and is there just to suit the intent of the person making 
the decision.  Blind decision making is really the complete lack of decision 
making, no thought really goes into it, you simply do not do it.  Now please, 
anybody reading this who does not drink...pick which category you fit into...I 
bet MOST readers will find themselves in the first category (the good one), 
and a few probably in the second (though you wouldn't admit it to yourself, a 
side effect of the condition).  If you find yourself in the blind category, 
you have bigger problems than the issue of "drink or not to drink"

> > If you can't at least take 30 seconds somewhere in your life 
> > to think/consider the pro's and con's before you adamantly insist 
> > you'll never do something, then don't waste anybody's 
> > time...
> 
> ..... and every one that chooses to not drink, and this choice is not 
> based on religion or alcoholism, hasn't? Where do you get your 
> information?

I think I've already made this point, but I'll approach it from this angle as 
well.  Your reason, as you've stated before, is that you don't like the taste. 
 Frankly, I figure that means you've tasted alcohol (if you haven't, I 
honestly will not even consider this conversation valid).  The simple fact 
that you've tasted it (and hopefully giving it a couple tries in case the 
first was just a bad instance) gives you the basis for making the decision, 
something you obviously thought at least a little about.  A.k.a.  Duh, you've 
made a reasonable decision.

> > Those who have a rational reason (kicking alcoholism for example), 
> > while rare, should be able to reason that "tasting" doesn't mean 
> > "consuming", and find a solution that suits the situation (perhaps 
> > what I mentioned above).
> 
> ...again.. if a person has moved to the road to recovery from 
> B-double-Oh-Zee-Eeee, then, and ONLY then, it's ok to not indulge?

Please, this is an example of throwing out basic tennents of conversation.  
The phrase I use "for example" generally implies that there are other reasons 
and the one listed is only one of them.  Please don't inject words or try to 
twist them, I'm not your enemy.

> > Those who have rationalized (yes, there is a difference) that they 
> > must not let in alcohol...ok, honestly, I find these people to be 
> > weak minded and easily swayed from one high-gloss issue to the next 
> > and are just as likely to start drinking next week as possibly follow 
> > Kate Moss into Scientology if the right person sways them either way 
> > (only to change their focus to something else 7-30 days later)
> 
> Now, is this more applicable to YOU, or to me?
> 
> Be honest, now.

I actually wasn't describing either of us...just including the "rationalized" 
group for completeness...and to throw in the kate moss joke :)

> > While I support somebody not drinking, I believe that there should 
> > still be room to understand the product that you're putting out.
> 
> And I support that the ONLY way to understand the product isn't 
> limited to consumption.

As I said from the begining...

-- 
Cody