Message 20358 of 39188 in General Discussion

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> > > So? Do they have research showing bad effects about a combination 
> > of 
> > > caffeine and alcohol? 
> 
> > It's two chemicals that each have specific and PROVEN properties.
> 
> Um, the edge we're looking at here is not just about whether they are 
> both bad, but whether the combination is worse . 
> 
> Does, as with some drugs, 1 + 1 = 3   ?
> 

Yes, I am not saying that alcohol and caffeine aren't bad. Of course you 
should take care for dehydration when drinking to much alcohol, caffeine or 
both. Or take care for some other effects which are strongly expressed. Of 
course you shouldn't take to much of either of them. What I am saying is that 
a combination of both doesn't have a magical dangerous interaction. (although 
I also think that some effects of caffeine on its own are also debatable).

> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002430338_healthenergy10.html
> -----
> Most people order such combinations for the perceived energy boost, 
> but doctors say mixing such large doses of caffeine with alcohol is 
> dangerous.
> 

Yes it is a popular opinion that mixing caffeine and alcohol can be dangerous 
but it doesn't have a good scientific foundation. There is no proof of an 
interaction between the two making eachother more powerfull and dangerous. 
There is no prove that red bull raises blood alcohol levels. I find it far to 
much exagerated that it is dangerous because you get more dehydrated. Do we 
also have to be carefull that it can be dangerous to combine drinking alcohol 
with dancing all night because both dehydrate? 

Doctors say it is dangerous because of speculations and guessing what happens 
in the body but when actually testing if it is true it seems that there is no 
effect. It happens very often with food and health stuff that contradicting 
opinions are both supported. It is important to find good sources.
In scientific literature it appears that there is no concensus about how the 
mechanisms of caffeine and ethanol work and what their effects are when 
combined. The media don't show well how opions are devided in the scientific 
world. The stories are based on speculations and unproven theories. The 
combination of ethanol and caffeine being bad is a hypothese it isn't a 
conclusion yet. Research doesn't show yet that it is true. There isn't good 
scientific evidence.

But, it is not up to me to decide how one should think about the different 
sources and whether or not something is dangerous that's another discussion. 
Someone might think that some possible theory is reason enough to find 
something dangerous. Some one might think that it is dangerous that young 
people might be misleaded and be promoted to drink more alcohol(that's however 
not the effect of caffeine but of marketing).
My point is that, in scientific literarture there is no real proof for 
interactions between Red Bull and ethanol. For me this is reason to think 
sceptic about the negative media about Red Bull. One should not think that 
there has been some good research which directly shows a negative effect from 
combining red bull and ethanol. Stories in media don't have to be true. It is 
not like this mixing red bull and vodka being very bad is a fact.

I do agree that there could be some effects like Red Bull increasing alcohol 
consumption or letting people think they can drive but I find this effect not 
important as it is not the combining of caffeine and alcohol which should be 
limited but the consumption of large amounts of alcohol which should to be 
limited (and is already being done by the goverments).

Articles below not all pro mixing but most of the articles I could find about 
combining ethanol and caffeine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15451648&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15365313&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15253026&query_hl=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11534543&query_hl=6

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12436202&query_hl=6

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8924273&query_hl=16

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12404692&query_hl=21

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11693229&query_hl=21

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11091031&query_hl=24

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11109028&query_hl=21

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9890396&query_hl=21

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ProduktNr=224233&Ausgabe=229631&ArtikelNr=73723

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2434967&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2809&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=449333&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2041457&dopt=Abstract

http://www.bookfinder.com/dir/i/The_Effects_of_Centrally_Active_Drugs_on_Voluntary_Alcohol_Consumption/9519191240/

  from the above(I am not sure if it's viewable by everyone)

> Abstract
> The effect of caffeine on the alcohol intake of rats offered a free choice of 
> > distilled water and 10% V/V ethanol solution was studied. Rats of both 
> sexes
> of the UChA (non drinker) and UChB (drinker) strains were employed. Caffeine 
> was given I.P., in doses of 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32 mg/kg of body weight during 5 
> days. The alcohol solution intake during the days of treatment was compared
> with the basic one. No effect was observed in rats of the UChA strain. 
> Caffeine treatment resulted in a dose dependent decrease of the alcohol intake 
> 
> in the rats of both sexes of the UChB strain.

http://www.alcoholism-cer.com/pt/re/alcoholism/abstract.00000374-200408002-00214.htm;jsessionid=DGr342QVRJFQYzEcFJuolJQ9PcuSjoz4s7MwGaFFPS26hqXvMPQc!-836056069!-949856144!9001!-1

http://www.safefoodonline.com/safefood/Uploads/health_effects.pdf

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/553/Grus.html#fn9

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9744850&dopt=Abstract

http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp34.htm