Message 8470 of 22774 in Behind the Bar

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> > > But if you have any oppotunity to discuss cocktails/beer/wine with 
> > > guests and to make suggestions and recommendations, then it's a 
> > > handicap. 
> > 
> > Why?
> 
> I think it's a handicap to not be able to have a detailed discussion 
> about liquor or cocktails with a guest.

Oops.. I meant, Why do you think that a person that doesn't drink CAN'T 
discuss cocktails/beer/wine with a guest or make suggestions or 
recommendations.

I think that discussion and suggestion and recommendations are all part of the 
bartender's world.

 
> I suppose I emphasize this aspect because I've relied on 
> it so much (firsthand drink experience) when dealing with customers.  

I used to go to a bar (as a patron, not a bartender or a drinker) and people 
that see me later would SWEAR that they had seen me drinking. Not me. "But you 
were the one that told me to try the Lynchburg Lemonade!".. Yeppers. And I can 
also recommend other drinks.. or tell when a person isn't a 'real' drinker, so 
they shouldn't be trying to drink Hennessy neat to impress any one. I can also 
tell them that an LIT doesn't tastes as boozy as, say, a Martini. Doesn't mean 
that I have to drink any of it.  

I have never had a guest ask me 'how often do you drink this yourself?'. I 
have had a few ask me what my favorite drink is, and I tell them, honestly, 
'Cubra Libre, but without the Rum'.

> > So any one that doesn't drink can't have an understanding of base 
> > spirits, liquers and mixers?
> 
> Of course you can, but it's the difference between theoretical and 
> practical.  I'm sure that a non-drinking bartender can get the job 
> done but I'd take the Pepsi Challenge against them any day of the 
> week for making the best Margarita/Sidecar/Cosmopolitan, you name it. 

Hmm... sounds a bit arrogant to me. You assume that yours is better, and 
this assumption is based SOLELY on the idea of a drinker, vs a non drinker. 
And again, as I mentioned before, what YOU like may not be what the guests 
likes. It happens EVERY DAY.

>  I don't see how book knowledge can compete with first hand 
> experience matched with a good palate.  Again, I'm biased because I 
> worked as a chef for years before getting behind the bar and I 
> approach cocktails the same way I do cuisine: using premium 
> ingredients to attain balanced but distinct flavors.  

Ok. And I don't think that just reading about something will cut it, either. 
But, I can smell..... I can ask other guests 'how does Brand A compare to 
Brand B, in your opinion?'........  And I ask about flavorings and nuances of 
liquors. I also READ up on them (go to their website.. what is that hinted 
flavor that no one else can identify?)

> > What about what your CUSTOMER wants? Some guests, believe it or not,  
> > don't want more sweet... Ok, good BASE point. I would add more sweet  
> > to Beam, too... but my point is, some my request their Manhattan with 
> > Beam because they want it a little less 'smooth'.
> 
> Of course I care about what the customer wants, but I'm not a 
> mind-reader. 

Yes. I know. But you are still assuming that guests have matching palates to 
yours. This may work MOST of the time, but supposing you get some one that is 
the type to say 'I would like a White Zinfadel, NO ICE!', and they really have 
a palate that would make them appreciate a glass of Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer, 
you may pour up what YOU'D like. My point is: you aren't a mind reader! You 
can't know how every one would like it. 

I would agree: keep making them the way you've been making them, esp if it 
works. But it's not fair to say that YOUR way is better than any one that's 
not drinking's way.... solely because you are a drinker. 

> A bartender could be taught to make an 
> excellent Mahattan by rote, but I think there's something special 
> about the person having a first hand understanding of the flavors 
> involved when mixing whiskey, sweet vermouth and Angostura bitters 
> (Mixmaster I'm looking at you).  Not to mention the flexibility I 
> mentioned above, being able to tailor the drink based upon the base 
> spirit.  

But.. if you make the drink the same way every time you make that drink.... I 
guess I'm missing your point. Or am I?

> Yet I've been cooking and mixing for 
> enough years to learn to trust my palate, to learn how to balance and 
> optimize almost any drink.  

That's wonderful. And I think that a non-drinker can do the same. Trust YOUR 
palate, or their other guests' palate. 


> > (yes, this is an annoying point.. I don't agree with you. If I had a 
> > pile of dog pooh, I'd throw it on your shoes RIGHT NOW!)
> 
> I'm guessing that this is your colorful, humorous side coming out?  

Darn: Caught again!


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Struggle is the proof you have not yet been conquered
- Author unknown

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